[WhiteNitroCA]

Maybe?

I'd do it today if I had the $, but I dont, yet!

 

[drvette]

Maybe?

I'd do it today if I had the $, but I dont, yet!

What is this all about??? Haven't heard anything about this!!!

 

[WhiteNitroCA]

ECU Upgrades or Chips..

http://www.bgchrysler.com/

 

[neverdone]

Maybe?

I'd do it today if I had the $, but I dont, yet!

I had a B&G flash on my 01 Dakota R/T and they are well worth it. They can custom calibrate the ECU to any mods you have it will perform better than a canned flash (ie Hypertech programmer etc). Talk to Dave.

 

[KenCary]

WhiteNitro,

Your last post peaked my interest in looking at a future ECU upgrade. I clearly want to wait to see how this works out for you first. I have toyed with the idea of nitrous and this will need a more sophisticated ECM program.

Please understand, I am not starting a "post war" here. I have sincere interest, but I also have big concerns about turning over my ECM to someone without knowing quite a bit about them. I think that all of our forum members as well as you would also want to be cautious.

The following is not intended to be damaging to B&G in any way and is merely my opinion of direct quotes and information from the B&G public website. Obiously some people have worked with them and are quite happy.

Has anyone on this forum, other than NeverDone, purchased anything from B&G before? Does anybody know someone that has? Has anybody investigated them?

I did a little research and I have some concerns. They bill themselves as a large established company, but I think that they started in some business other than ECM's-- perhaps an auto repair garage.

There are a few red flags here:

1. The only staff member listed is David Kasper
2. Other "staff" are listed in some sort of nebulous "on-call" status? What is this? Either you work for a company or you don't. If you don't you are a subcontractor not staff. Even at that, they don't list any names or Bio for these "on call" people.
3. The only e-mail listed on the main site is to David Kasper
4. When you click on the link to the ECM programing service, the following appears at the bottom of the web page:

Note: B&G PCM Modifications are for OFF-ROAD use only, and sold "as is" unless otherwise noted with no implied warranty!​

The way I read this is that I can hand over my ECM to these guys, give them $ 350.00 and then if the thing dies a day after the install--- that is my tough luck!

What if one of the "on-call" guys does not observe proper ESD procedures and blows out a CMOS chip? I don't see pictures or a description of the electonic re-work lab. I don't see that they are ISO 9000 certified. They don't list themselves as a Mopar-approved contractor, nor do they even claim to be ASE-certified.

Here is the actual verbiage on the site when you click on the "view staff link" you get the following:


[SIZE=+2]B&G Staff Profiles[/SIZE]

David Kasper: Associates Degree from Ferris State University (Automotive Service & Heavy Equipment Technology), 10 years dealership experience as a technician, 14 years with DaimlerChrysler Corporation with a position as a Service Engineer, Master Mechanic Certification. 300 hours + of DaimlerChrysler Vehicle training.

[SIZE=+1]We will be adding more profiles as info is gathered.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1](*) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Note: B&G Employees are "at will employees and on a on-call as needed basis only", profiles are for past and present employees and are for reference only and do not indicate any employment status.[/SIZE]
Thanks for your support.

 

[Sapper RT]

...

Hey Ken just though you might want to see this link, I found it while surfing, I know its not a personal testimony but I would say its a good sign that someone is using them on their web site.

http://estore.websitepros.com/802805/Detail.bok?no=1205

Sapper

WhiteNitro,

Your last post peaked my interest in looking at a future ECU upgrade. I clearly want to wait to see how this works out for you first. I have toyed with the idea of nitrous and this will need a more sophisticated ECM program.

Please understand, I am not starting a "post war" here. I have sincere interest, but I also have big concerns about turning over my ECM to someone without knowing quite a bit about them. I think that all of our forum members as well as you would also want to be cautious.

The following is not intended to be damaging to B&G in any way and is merely my opinion of direct quotes and information from the B&G public website. Obiously some people have worked with them and are quite happy.

Has anyone on this forum, other than NeverDone, purchased anything from B&G before? Does anybody know someone that has? Has anybody investigated them?

I did a little research and I have some concerns. They bill themselves as a large established company, but I think that they started in some business other than ECM's-- perhaps an auto repair garage.

There are a few red flags here:

1. The only staff member listed is David Kasper
2. Other "staff" are listed in some sort of nebulous "on-call" status? What is this? Either you work for a company or you don't. If you don't you are a subcontractor not staff. Even at that, they don't list any names or Bio for these "on call" people.
3. The only e-mail listed on the main site is to David Kasper
4. When you click on the link to the ECM programing service, the following appears at the bottom of the web page:

Note: B&G PCM Modifications are for OFF-ROAD use only, and sold "as is" unless otherwise noted with no implied warranty!​

The way I read this is that I can hand over my ECM to these guys, give them $ 350.00 and then if the thing dies a day after the install--- that is my tough luck!

What if one of the "on-call" guys does not observe proper ESD procedures and blows out a CMOS chip? I don't see pictures or a description of the electonic re-work lab. I don't see that they are ISO 9000 certified. They don't list themselves as a Mopar-approved contractor, nor do they even claim to be ASE-certified.

Here is the actual verbiage on the site when you click on the "view staff link" you get the following:


[SIZE=+2]B&G Staff Profiles[/SIZE]

David Kasper: Associates Degree from Ferris State University (Automotive Service & Heavy Equipment Technology), 10 years dealership experience as a technician, 14 years with DaimlerChrysler Corporation with a position as a Service Engineer, Master Mechanic Certification. 300 hours + of DaimlerChrysler Vehicle training.

[SIZE=+1]We will be adding more profiles as info is gathered.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1](*) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Note: B&G Employees are "at will employees and on a on-call as needed basis only", profiles are for past and present employees and are for reference only and do not indicate any employment status.[/SIZE]
Thanks for your support.

 

[acx]

I seem to recall seeing them being used on viper applications which instills some confidence in me.

I'm thinking about doing this in the new year assuming they can do the 4.0l platform. :smileup:

 

[KenCary]

I seem to recall seeing them being used on viper applications which instills some confidence in me.

I'm thinking about doing this in the new year assuming they can do the 4.0l platform. :smileup:

I have no doubt that some of these BG programs work, but for a relatively stock Nitro-- who knows how much this is worth to risk your ECM.

I am old school, and I don't like making big, critical transactions with a company that is not large and established.

Your ECM is worth big bucks, if something goes wrong, you'll have to foot the bill for the part and labor.

Lots of people on these forums have gone to B&G, so they no doubt know what they are doing. It all depends on your risk tolerance level.

PM me if you want my personal opinion. My point in the post was to raise a red flag. Remember if something looks too good to be true-- it usually is.

Ken

 

[NitroTech]

The failure rate of the flash would be exactly the same as going to your dealer. You'd be in the same boat if your PCM quit after the extended emission warranty expired. I don't see it as a huge risk. Whether the reprogram delivers what is expected would be an individual opinion.

 

[KenCary]

The failure rate of the flash would be exactly the same as going to your dealer. You'd be in the same boat if your PCM quit after the extended emission warranty expired. I don't see it as a huge risk. Whether the reprogram delivers what is expected would be an individual opinion.

My concern is not that the flash would not work. My concern is handing over my ECU. Aside from whether or not they observe industry standard practices for electroninics, what if they just plain lose it?

It looks like I am in the minority here as far as seeing risk. I'll wait until Hyperthech, Jet or some other established company offers an ECU reflash for the Nitro.

 

[acx]

I have no doubt that some of these BG programs work, but for a relatively stock Nitro-- who knows how much this is worth to risk your ECM.

I am old school, and I don't like making big, critical transactions with a company that is not large and established.

Your ECM is worth big bucks, if something goes wrong, you'll have to foot the bill for the part and labor.

Lots of people on these forums have gone to B&G, so they no doubt know what they are doing. It all depends on your risk tolerance level.

PM me if you want my personal opinion. My point in the post was to raise a red flag. Remember if something looks too good to be true-- it usually is.

Ken

Well risk factor indeed and depends on the person.

I myself would trust a reflash before I would a piggyback, but that I guess is because I've seen this sort of deal before with my dodge and subaru modding days.

The brass ring for me would be a hand held tuner like the SCT or diablo predator, but normally as I've seen, Chrysler doesn't play ball with the aftermarket worth a damn. From that respect in a way I sort of appreciate bcg stepping up to the plate. In the new year I actually would hope to buy a new pcm and get it flashed assuming things go well for me and they have the nitro 4.0 platform...

As for deriving gains I would assume tuning for premium, timing changes, changing a/f ratio, changing when cooling fans turn on, perhaps shift points changes, redline changes would be what they do. Heck for me, if they could clean up the throttle by wire hanging / throttle response I'd like that all by itself.

I do agree that a guy has to take a hard look at the risk vs rewards.

 

[WhiteNitroCA]

LOL, Ken your worries entertain me... I can just see you being the kinda of guy with a stand alone ECU.. j/k

The ECU's are $49 from LKQ(used on fleabay), and will never be more than $99(car-parts.com), just think of it as a memory card for your car with a program on it.

One case.. they loose the ECU... why would even bring this up? as a risk.. LOL You buy a new one from the dealer, which should be paid for because you were smart and sent it FEDEX insured to BG..

Another case.. you get it and its not what you expected.. you wipe the ECU and start over from stock.. not sure if there is a return policy on the program, or how long it is, if you REALLY were disappointed.

It is really not a big deal to run an ECU.. I had my Audi 1.8T chipped with prototype chips producing excessive boost and NEVER had any issues with the ECU..

If you were really cautious, buy a stocker and keep both in your car.. if the BG causes failure EVER or you take your car to the dealer, throw back in a another stocker ECU?

Chips(ecu programming) have come ALONG way, not for our car(per say).. on the AUDI you can now change from a STOCK PROGRAM to a STREET program to a RACE 100 Octance ECU setting all on 1 chip integrated through the car's computer and cruise control stalk controls.

How big you do think GIAC is? HINT: It's one guy(or was at one time), who was going to medical school and supporting his ECU programs.

 

[KenCary]

Well risk factor indeed and depends on the person.

I myself would trust a reflash before I would a piggyback, but that I guess is because I've seen this sort of deal before with my dodge and subaru modding days.

The brass ring for me would be a hand held tuner like the SCT or diablo predator, but normally as I've seen, Chrysler doesn't play ball with the aftermarket worth a damn. From that respect in a way I sort of appreciate bcg stepping up to the plate. In the new year I actually would hope to buy a new pcm and get it flashed assuming things go well for me and they have the nitro 4.0 platform...

As for deriving gains I would assume tuning for premium, timing changes, changing a/f ratio, changing when cooling fans turn on, perhaps shift points changes, redline changes would be what they do. Heck for me, if they could clean up the throttle by wire hanging / throttle response I'd like that all by itself.

I do agree that a guy has to take a hard look at the risk vs rewards.

I hear you about frustration with Chrusler.

I am more of a GM-Ford guy and with a Chevy you not only can use a Hypertech, but there are dozens of Laptop interface/programs to choose from.

I even know guy who tuned his Impala SS while driving.

I guess, when pickin's are slim, people are willing to go to deviate from known companies like Hypertech.

Ken

 

[neverdone]

Man talk about paranoia. I have used B&G personally and Dave did a great job with my flash. I sent out my PCM over night and had it back on the third day ready to go and it performed as advertised. They are not as huge as Hypertech but that's to their benefit with the personalization they can do for your tune.

 

[acx]

Man talk about paranoia. I have used B&G personally and Dave did a great job with my flash. I sent out my PCM over night and had it back on the third day ready to go and it performed as advertised. They are not as huge as Hypertech but that's to their benefit with the personalization they can do for your tune.

you have this for your nitro? How is it?

I see diablosport has some apps for chrysler now and SCt will to to essentially do the same thing and offer some tweaking after the fact.

 

[neverdone]

you have this for your nitro? How is it?

I see diablosport has some apps for chrysler now and SCt will to to essentially do the same thing and offer some tweaking after the fact.

I had a B&G flash on my 01 Dakota R/T that I used to own never used them for the Nitro. Some of the Dak R/T guys are getting into the SCT's the main issue they had was finding a local tuner with the Dodge software.

 

[KenCary]

Man talk about paranoia. I have used B&G personally and Dave did a great job with my flash. I sent out my PCM over night and had it back on the third day ready to go and it performed as advertised. They are not as huge as Hypertech but that's to their benefit with the personalization they can do for your tune.

I am happy that you had a good experience with B&G. I will and have done business with small firms, but only if i can meet the owner and look him in the eye. Not paranoia, just personal style.

That is also why I prefer to buy from distributors like Jegs or Summit rather than someone wh sets up shop on eBay.

In lieu of meeting this guy, lots of postive stories like yours may sway me to try him in the future.

Ke

 

[StarBandit]

B&G has been around for quite a while. They wouldn't still be doing the mods if it didn't work or provide a quality service. I had thought of getting their flash when I had my 98 Ram supercharged and could not keep the air/fuel ratio correct, even after swapping out the injectors with several different sizes (see www.allaroundmopars.com/Todd.htm) and different FMU's. The truck was a beast with all the R/T stuff plus the blower, even for a 4x4. The blue ovals didn't like my truck!

My $.02 is go with the flash if you have serious mods, otherwise for stockers and slight mods, go with the chip or programmer. I have my 5.7 hemi programmer and plugged it into the Nitro just to check codes. It works, but would never flash for performance using the hemi program.

 

[VinnyC]

B&G are HUGE in the dak and ram modders. I've known about them since 2001 when I bought my '98 SS/T. If you are looking for just a flash, no stand alone or piggy back fmu then yes these are the guys to go to. They are top notch. I personally have not used them because I will be using a stand alone F.A.S.T unit on my SS/T. If you are considering actually flashing the pcm do it through these guys, you will get exactly what you ask them for.