Difference between Nitro and Journey Engines
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Don't be mislead by peak HP figures.
It is a torque over a broad RPM range that you feel and that acellerates the car.
A smaller V6 with more peak HP might actually be slower in a heavy vehicle like the Nitro.
I have a LT-1 350 V8 in my 94 9C1 police car and the advertised rating is 260HP (only a few more than the Nitro V6) but this 4600+ pound car turns 15's in the qtr with a 3.08 rear and tops out at over 150MPH. It can smoke the 60 series tires when you punch it while rolling at 20MPH.
I would love to have this 260HP "weakling" under the hood of my Nitro.
Lesson learned: Advertised HP ratings like MPG ratings need to be taken with a grain of salt. Dirve the car to judge it rather than reading the specs.
Ken
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well it isnt built yet so ill have to wait a while!:chuckle:
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A perfect example of this is the 3.5 that nissan/infiniti uses in most of their vehicles. Same basic engine, geared differently with differnt intakes. My moms 3.5 maxima get 265hp i think? My dads g35 gets 306 hp. Same engine... Yet my 3.7 in the Nitro gets a mere 210 hp. And worse mpg lol
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I hate to say but that's the difference between Japanese and North American technology. I've driven the Maxima with that engine and it goes, and I do realize that weight has a lot to do with that.
I would not blame this on North American vs Japanese technology-- just $ invested in the engine.
Take a look at the new V6 in the Cadillac CTS-- Car of the year.
This V6 pulls the heavy Caddy to 14 sec 1/4mile times with an automatic.
Even the V6 in the new Chevy Malibu is competitve with the Honda V6 in terms of HP/L.
If we want to look to any country for high-power in a small engine, it would be the Brits who really pioneered the dual overhead cam engine for production cars. Remember Cosworth?
We know Mopar could give us a high performance V6 if they wanted to.
Ken
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So why don't they.
As you said Cosworth had the 2.0 twin cam 16v turbo that produced 205 hp and was easily tuned to up and around 400hp. My buddy had the Ford Sierra Sapphire RS Cosworth with that engine in and it was truly amazing. A 0 to 60 time of 6.1 secs, top speed around 150 mph while still returning 22 mpg city and 35 highway. And too top it all off that was 20 years ago.
I could bring a European diesel over here that would out perform many gas powered cars.
Ford UK produce a 2.7 liter diesel which pushes out over 200 hp and it's dry weight is only 450 lb. So they do have the investment but choose not to use it over here, except on the Jags and Land Rovers.
I hate to say it but soon THAT Japanese company will be #1 automaker because they give what the people want....Fuel efficiency coupled with performance.
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I personally think that any of today's modern car companies are capable of producing a powerful efficient engine. Like CL said, it is only a matter of how much they are willing to spend. Japanese car companies pride themselves in their engines, therefore spend more money developing them. Because of this, they have VERY durable engines that last forever. I would much rather buy a 100,000 mile honda civic than a 100,000 Jeep. It is just that the Japanese engines are more efficient and durable.
Oh and CL, if you get the chance, drive a 2007+ G35. Infiniti/Nissan really did a great job with the 3.5 engine. It is a whole level up on the Maxima. The thing hauls!
Oh and CL, if you get the chance, drive a 2007+ G35. Infiniti/Nissan really did a great job with the 3.5 engine. It is a whole level up on the Maxima. The thing hauls!
Well I know it is not a V6 but the 4.0L inline 6 in the old jeep grand cherokee/cherokee/comanche was a very reliable engine. You could easily drive over 200,000 miles with that engine. It also had tons of low end torque (230ft/lb) which made it feel like it made alot more hp than the 190hp that it actually made. So the U.S. is capable of making reliable engines they just don't care to. Why make something last forever when you can make it last about 5 years.... that way the consumer will be force to purchase a new car.
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Anyone that thinks the U.S can't make long life engines never owned an" Iron Duke " . I had one in a small Chevy wagon and two in my twin screw Chris tournament fisherman . I had 250,000 miles on the wagon when I sold it and it still never used a drop of oil in 3000 mile oil changes .The boat had 2000 plus hours on it and was sold to a charter type fisherman and he used it for another 5 years. A brief background on the Duke , 4 banger ,2.5 L, 85 hp, with 123 # torque.. We can make them if and when we want to.
Roadie
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That's exactly the point...if they want to...but they have opted not too and are suffering the consequences.Anyone that thinks the U.S can't make long life engines never owned an" Iron Duke " . I had one in a small Chevy wagon and two in my twin screw Chris tournament fisherman . I had 250,000 miles on the wagon when I sold it and it still never used a drop of oil in 3000 mile oil changes .The boat had 2000 plus hours on it and was sold to a charter type fisherman and he used it for another 5 years. A brief background on the Duke , 4 banger ,2.5 L, 85 hp, with 123 # torque.. We can make them if and when we want to.
Roadie
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Hey Graham ..Just plain sad "Ain't it " ?
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I had that in 5 AMC cars, and 2 Jeeps and never a problem , it was a good one,My first was a 73 Hornet I put about 36k on it and the guy that bought it when I traded it in went well over 200k with no problems.
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356 Posts
Well.
I think Chrysler is starting to get the point with these engines.
But they are making it more complicated then needed. I mean why build a Durango, Ram 1500,2009's as hybrids instead of just getting rid of these dang huge plenums! I swear, i worked on a Chrysler Concord the other day and it had THREE! What is the point? Please tell me why we need that! I know "For a more even idle" but WHO CARES!
Basics of engines.
Intake
Combustion
Exhaust.
NOW! fix the intake to let it BREATHE!
Let the engine run a little LEAN!
Let it have higher compression ratios, while still running regular.
Get rid of these catalysts or at least let them breathe better, Larger diamiter intakes and exhausts. Let ALL engines have MDS!
I mean why not? If im sitting in traffic or at a car wash or crusing at 45 MPH why do i need 210 HP? Lets cut it to 105! When i hit the gas GIMME THE POWER! or let me turn off MDS if i dont like it!
Chrysler and American companies can do this we have just never seen the need.... we need to all SCREAM!
Ill take a 2.5L engine in my Nitro if it had a turbo, it would get the same power and better mileage!
As far as longevity goes i havent ever had a problem with Chrysler/Dodge...
Pt Cruiser 140,000 Nothing wrong.
Ram 1500 100,000 or so miles, Nothing.
lol
Nitro 4,000 Broken door panels, broken roof rails, rattles galore, transmission problems, broken SEAT BELT, center stack so loose im afraid im gonna pull it off when i use the power outlet, rubber seal falling into engine, Brake recall and foot well cover fallen.
Ok i got my rant out!
I think Chrysler is starting to get the point with these engines.
But they are making it more complicated then needed. I mean why build a Durango, Ram 1500,2009's as hybrids instead of just getting rid of these dang huge plenums! I swear, i worked on a Chrysler Concord the other day and it had THREE! What is the point? Please tell me why we need that! I know "For a more even idle" but WHO CARES!
Basics of engines.
Intake
Combustion
Exhaust.
NOW! fix the intake to let it BREATHE!
Let the engine run a little LEAN!
Let it have higher compression ratios, while still running regular.
Get rid of these catalysts or at least let them breathe better, Larger diamiter intakes and exhausts. Let ALL engines have MDS!
I mean why not? If im sitting in traffic or at a car wash or crusing at 45 MPH why do i need 210 HP? Lets cut it to 105! When i hit the gas GIMME THE POWER! or let me turn off MDS if i dont like it!
Chrysler and American companies can do this we have just never seen the need.... we need to all SCREAM!
Ill take a 2.5L engine in my Nitro if it had a turbo, it would get the same power and better mileage!
As far as longevity goes i havent ever had a problem with Chrysler/Dodge...
Pt Cruiser 140,000 Nothing wrong.
Ram 1500 100,000 or so miles, Nothing.
lol
Nitro 4,000 Broken door panels, broken roof rails, rattles galore, transmission problems, broken SEAT BELT, center stack so loose im afraid im gonna pull it off when i use the power outlet, rubber seal falling into engine, Brake recall and foot well cover fallen.
Ok i got my rant out!
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