[SthglosHI]

Oh dear…having read this thread it would appear my driver’s door lock has pulled the same stunt. Happened today with no intermittent faults of any kind. Locked the door on the key fob, took dog for a long walk, came back and door wouldn’t open. Had to crawl in from passenger side and slide into seat. Drove home and had to slide back out across passenger seat to get out.

I’m guessing this is the deadlock issue mentioned with door lock mechanism failing in the worst scenario locked position.

looks like I’ve got a pretty nasty job ahead trying to get the darn door to open 🤦‍♂️

 

[SthglosHI]

Hi Nitrogen, yep nothing happening inside or out using the handles.

Is this an electrical or mechanical fault?

Gonna try the battery lead reset first, if that doesn’t work then was thinking driver’s seat out to give more room to get to the door card.

I’d appreciate any help you can give buddy.

 

[SthglosHI]

Thanks as always.

1. reset to see if it helps
2. Lightly thump whilst using key fob
3. Cry if it doesn’t work
4. Get to the kick panel relays and play with em
5. Cry a bit more if no joy

this is phase 1…🤦‍♂️

 

[SthglosHI]

Driver’s seat removed, kick trim panel removed.

Battery leads off system allowed to reset for over an hour whilst removing seat, by joining disconnected battery leads together.

reconnected battery…no joy door still not opening.

Silly question Nitrogen, I assume the relays are in the driver’s/ right side footwell? Lost the light of day couldn’t see 😁

...can't see any relays in here, or are they further up behind the dash?

 

[SthglosHI]

Appreciate your help 👍

 

[SthglosHI]

on reading the SM it refers to RHD vehicles as having secondary door lock/unlock relays (P390 & P391), I'm assuming this is the deadlock relays we're talking about. it gives me some test options, but doesn't show me where the relays are located. It states "remove the secondary door lock/unlock relays from the I.P end bracket (behind right kick panel).

Guessing here I.P. must be instrument panel??

Guess I need to crawl further in and look up to find the so called "end bracket"

The unlock signal wire from C7 at the TIPM is LG/DB so by tracing this wire it should lead me to the relay if I can't physically see the darn thing.

 

[SthglosHI]

Having looked through the workshop manual I can't find any wiring diagrams for the secondary door lock circuits, only the schematic in the SM. The only reference to relays somewhere behind the instrument panel is in the electrical section referred to as "relay micro Thatcham" x2. I'm guessing these are the correct relays # 5604892AA (now superseded by #68382350AA).

 

[SthglosHI]

😂 at least the driver’s seat is out that was a painful enough process lying across the centre armrest/handbrake lever.

Great suggestion with the key fob, if they’re in there I’ll find em 🥴

 

[SthglosHI]

Yep you’re right I saw that too, the first and only other owner was a lady driver who never even changed a spark plug. I’ve owned it for the past nearly 12 years as the second owner. No work has ever been carried out behind the kick panel by me or anyone else, unless something was done here on one of the recalls I had done by Dodge dealers over the years. I assume others may also have this weird lead maybe under the black tape.

I’m also curious about the white multi connector above it not connected to anything 🧐

 

[SthglosHI]

I’m not gonna be looking at the Nitro until the weekend if you could have a look when you get time I’d appreciate it buddy.

yep still got the E-pace with about 14 months left to run on the contract. It’s a nice, quick, comfortable car for work. Jaguar stitched me up though, no satnav, no apple CarPlay and none of it can be upgraded by the dealer (only on the production line) 🥴

not sure what I’ll go for next when it comes up for change. Fancied the new Land Rover discovery but it’s too darn expensive😁

 

[SthglosHI]

😂 I know exactly what you mean, my daughter left school many years ago and still a financial drain on the bank of mum and dad.

I meant to say the new defender not discovery, I was hoping I could replace the E pace with one but at well over £500 a month I couldn’t justify it. Mind you if money was no object the Hummer EV would be a target of mine 🤦‍♂️

p.s. the metal plate you mention is an integral part of the dash frame, there's one on each side kick space. I also just had a closer look at that bullet connector in the photo it looks for all the world like a DIY crimp connector...I'll have a close up physical look at it the weekend and see if I can locate the wiring colour in the wiring diagrams. That white multi connector could also be a DIY job. When I bought the car it had a horrible aftermarket hands free kit installed which I promptly removed this may be something to do with that, but I've never had the kick panel trim off which is all a bit odd. Can't see this has any bearing on my door problem though 😞otherwise the issue would have cropped up years ago.

 

[SthglosHI]

Ah fantastic thanks a bunch for crawling in there really appreciate it.

I’m keeping everything crossed the relay is the fault, don’t want to think beyond that just yet. The weekend is now cleared for the job…stayed tuned 🥴

On zooming in on your picture the light green/dark blue tracer wire connected to the right hand relay is the signal wire from C7 at the TIPM. That's one point to check if signal is being sent on pressing key fob unlock button. This is where I wished I had my own personal Starscan unit, as trouble codes B198A, B198B & B109B would help immediately identify possible faults without resorting to 'old school' methods.

The SM also mentions issues that may arise from the Wireless Control Module sensing problems with the RKE fob transmitter (battery low or transmitter error), I suspect this is not the case but will check my backup key fob see if that makes any difference.

 

[SthglosHI]

Checked backup key fob and door master switch, both work as they should…still no joy door lock still fast asleep.

next job secondary relays 🙄

 

[SthglosHI]

True to form nothing is ever simple…not the secondary relays, it had to be the bl**dy door lock

spent all day removing the door card and the window regulator from the inside. So yes it can be done.

the door card was the easy bit, the window regulator not so. Getting all the bolts out was easy enough, but the final snag is a black plastic shroud around the door latch referred to as the “presenter, latch, front door” in the parts manual. No other way but to break it free from the window regulator human hands are just not made to slither into the gap.

the wiring harness needs to be completely unclipped, from all components including the hideous door latch. Then pushed through the front grommet hole at the front of the window regulator carrier plate. The next bit is to try to unlatch the two link rods from the door latch end, I had to break the clips again due to the gap being only enough to get a long flat head screwdriver down in side to lever the clips off.

only then did the window regulator carrier plate come out.

oh by the way the rubber door seal needs to be completely removed before the door card has enough space to lift up and off.

So now we have all the covers and guts removed from the inside of the door.

next job is to work out how the heck I can break the door lock to get the door open!!!!!!! If anyone out there knows a way please shout it out, cos as it stands the door is still not budging

that’s it for this weekend apart from sourcing parts I’ve broken in the process. Great to see most are discontinued!!

 

[SthglosHI]

Yeah me too, it was never going to be that simple my luck just doesn’t go that way.

next weekend’s job is definitely to try to jump lead the solenoid, fortunately I bought a power probe tool a few years back hoping this makes that an easier feat.

in the meantime, new window regulator carrier plate on order, along with a new old stock 4589462AG lock mechanism. The lock is a 6 pin not the same as the US model, if you have an export model RHD do not mistakingly buy the 3 pin mechanism.

this is by far turning out the to be the worst repair job I’ve had to do. Wife is now resolute it’s time to get shot of it, she is of course right but pride won’t allow me to accept defeat 😬

 

[SthglosHI]

Thanks buddy, J11 tested as ok. I got all excited for about 10minutes until it was tested.

One thing I did work out though is the bullet connector, the associated harness, white multi plug and the rectangular black plastic box behind the metal bracket, are all part of the originally installed parrot hands free system that was in the car when I bought it. It was spliced into some vehicle wires that ran down the floor by the side of the removed driver’s seat. Thats a removal job for when the door is fully sorted.

 

[SthglosHI]

Yep a hard reset is the go to starting point for most things that go wrong. Been doing this loads of times over the years and it usually works. However, not this time. I’ve now done it 6 or 7 times over a few days and still the latch is deadlocked.

having owned it for the 11 or 12 years the only other time I had door locking issues it was a bad TIPM. Since that was replaced with most recent modification everything has as sweet as a nut.

Now the door is all now stripped down internally the next job is to use a power probe on the door latch connector pins with the wiring harness disconnected. See if that will operate the solenoid to unlock it…if not then the only other option is go in heavy to break the lock mechanism

thankfully I’ve found a new replacement RHD latch, fingers crossed it turns up in the post

 

[SthglosHI]

Continued to work on the door today, bought an old wiring harness with correct 8 pin (6 wires) connector for the door lock actuator. Cut the plug leaving 12” of harness so I could bare the ends to go to work with power probe. This allowed the disconnection of the installed harness to eliminate back feeding any wires by mistake.

tested all pins in accordance with available wiring diagrams. This is a bit hit or miss as the wiring diagram does not show the thatcham 6 wires, only the 4 wires for the US model. Nevertheless I was able to determine the lock mech was locking/unlocking as it should but the deadlock was seized. The door still wasn’t budging.

without being able to open door I wasn’t going to be able to change the lock actuator, so the decision was taken to try to break the lock working from the inside of the door.

this is tight for space and required a work light to see exactly what I was doing. I also used a Borescope from work to get deep look in and around the mechanism.

the backside of the mechanism accessible shows a white plastic casing. This casing covers the two motors, one at the top and one at bottom. With sections of this casing removed I was able to see that the bottom motor was soaking wet and badly rusted. By pulling out the two connecting wires enough to apply 12v, the motor was unresponsive and tested as open circuit. This motor was shot. These motors have tiny drive shafts with brass worm gears on them which in turn rotate plastic gears.

the top one locks/unlocks the mechanism as it rotates to and fro. I determined the bottom one did the same as the secondary deadlock. This bottom worm drive shaft was bent away from the gear. voila, the door opened.

with the door open I was now able the remove the three torx screws from the door shut, and the mechanism came out.

Now the next problem…having scoured the internet for part number 4589462AG I found only two suppliers claiming to have stock, unfortunately both cancelled the orders saying they could not source it. The part number is critical to the export RHD with the Thatcham security system, the US part will not work as it has less wires connected through a different mechanism connector.

The Nitro will now remain off the road until a replacement mechanism new/or recycled can be found.

So why did this happen, from what I can work out it due to the ingress of water from the ageing weather seal allowing water to run over the lock mechanism. If you’re lucky it won’t penetrate the mechanism. If unlucky like me water will get inside the mechanism and fill up around the bottom motor causing it to fail as mine did.

For the sake of less than £100 replacing a worn out weather seal it may just save the lock mechanism from suffering the same fate again.

For now the Nitro is having a well earned rest until a new lock mechanism can be found, if anyone has a RHD front right door working lock mechanism please let me know. 👍

 

[SthglosHI]

Door finally open.

Door lock actuator removed (part number 4589462AD, latest revision is AG)

Bottom motor location nicely coated in rust from the motor sitting in a water bath

Bottom motor removed, this doesn't just happen over night. It's clearly been soaking for a few years.

 

[SthglosHI]

A precaution is always a wise move, given the ridiculous design of this latch.

from what I’ve worked out the non Thatcham door mechanism has only 4 wires.(earth, door ajar, forward and reverse feed wires for the single motor inside). By looking at pics of the latch you can see it has no second motor (bottom motor). The only wiring diagram available supports this, we don’t have the thatcham door latch connector wiring diagram showing the 6 connected wires.

the 6 wires are; earth, door ajar, top motor forward and reverse, bottom motor forward and reverse.

by a process of elimination it’s obvious the bottom motor is the deadlock motor. As it seems to enjoy sitting in a water bath it’s a matter of time before it fails. Totally agree it’s a stupid design to add to the other list for the Nitro.

if I can’t find a replacement 6 wire mechanism in a reasonable time I may have to consider getting a non Thatcham, the matching harness plug, and rewire the door. Not sure if this will work electrically by leaving the bottom motor wires disconnected, but it may be my only option worth trying. I guess there’s a chance it will throw up a body fault code.