[NPHBOB]

I know that there have been several threads about the KN CAI and dual exhaust. I have read that some see a marked improvement in HP while others really haven't noticed a change.

Seems like most are excited about the sound of the exhaust and/or the CAI.

My question is this:

Has anyone seen a true increase in mileage? I am currently averaging right at 20 to 21 with the driving being about 50/50 between city and highway. I find this to be pretty decent considering the power and weight.

I would like to know if these mods have any benefits beyond being "cool". While I like a great sounding vehicle as much as the next guy (I have duals on my 2001 3/4 ton Ram and they sound great), I am now more interested in what the payback might be for investing in these mods.

With gas over $3.50 per gallon and quickly approaching $4, I would love to be able to justify the cost of these upgrades by knowing that an increase in mileage (even a slight one such as 1 or 2 miles per gallon) is likely to happen.

I know that many have made these mods so I would think we ought to be able to get a true and detailed feedback from those who have!

Any takers????

 

[minitrucker007]

I know that there have been several threads about the KN CAI and dual exhaust. I have read that some see a marked improvement in HP while others really haven't noticed a change.

Seems like most are excited about the sound of the exhaust and/or the CAI.

My question is this:

Has anyone seen a true increase in mileage? I am currently averaging right at 20 to 21 with the driving being about 50/50 between city and highway. I find this to be pretty decent considering the power and weight.

I would like to know if these mods have any benefits beyond being "cool". While I like a great sounding vehicle as much as the next guy (I have duals on my 2001 3/4 ton Ram and they sound great), I am now more interested in what the payback might be for investing in these mods.

With gas over $3.50 per gallon and quickly approaching $4, I would love to be able to justify the cost of these upgrades by knowing that an increase in mileage (even a slight one such as 1 or 2 miles per gallon) is likely to happen.

I know that many have made these mods so I would think we ought to be able to get a true and detailed feedback from those who have!

Any takers????

Good question, I had this question myself when I got started doing research. What I have found is yes and no. There can be a horsepower gain and gas gain but there can also be a gas loss. When the vehicle is pushing more power then stock it is going to be using more gas then stock even if it is running more efficient there is still room for error. More horsepower normally require the use of more gas. With an intake and exhaust setup you can get better gas mileage but the main factor is your foot. Like me I am always getting on it I can’t take off without getting her up there. In this factor I am not going to get better gas mileage I am going to get better performance. But if I drive slow and keep the rpm down and keep the vehicle at the speed limit or below I can see an increase over stock. Because there is better air flow in the motor and air runs in cooler thats why they call them cold air intakes. Know exhaust you can get an increases but it depends on what you put on the vehicle. Exhaust like Flow Master, Magna flow, Borla, Dyno Max, help with flow but there not high flow there is still a chambered area that courses back presser. But exhaust like Aero exhaust is strait flow with no chamber witch is what is need for better gas mileage. But it will make any car sound like a Honda. Most of the horsepower gain is all in sound more sound makes anyone thank of more horsepower even if there is not more power, to most people it just fills better and faster.

 

[Ghost Ridin]

To be honest yes. I was averaging 14mpg in the city after installing my 22s. After installing my CAI, Exhaust, and Lineage Motorsport kit I am at a constant 17 mpgs in the city. I haven't had a chance to test it on the highway yet. But thats just my story, others may be different.

 

[NPHBOB]

Thanks Mini. I know that having a lead foot over a feather foot dramatically affects the mileage. My normal driving style is to be gentle on the gas pedal. Because of this, I usually am on the top end of the estimated mileage. Now when my wife drives, that all goes out the window! :SHOCKED:

She believes in using everyone of the available horses under the hood and then goes looking for some more!

As I said before, if adding either or both of these mods will help with even a small increase in mileage, then I know a payback is going to happen. I have only had my Nitro since mid January of this year and I am about to turn over 10,000 miles. I do drive a lot!

Thanks again for your input and I hope others will join in.

 

[Sarahb69]

I know that there have been several threads about the KN CAI and dual exhaust. I have read that some see a marked improvement in HP while others really haven't noticed a change.

Seems like most are excited about the sound of the exhaust and/or the CAI.

My question is this:

Has anyone seen a true increase in mileage? I am currently averaging right at 20 to 21 with the driving being about 50/50 between city and highway. I find this to be pretty decent considering the power and weight.

I would like to know if these mods have any benefits beyond being "cool". While I like a great sounding vehicle as much as the next guy (I have duals on my 2001 3/4 ton Ram and they sound great), I am now more interested in what the payback might be for investing in these mods.

With gas over $3.50 per gallon and quickly approaching $4, I would love to be able to justify the cost of these upgrades by knowing that an increase in mileage (even a slight one such as 1 or 2 miles per gallon) is likely to happen.

I know that many have made these mods so I would think we ought to be able to get a true and detailed feedback from those who have!

Any takers????

The only engine mod I have done is a CAI. Mine is a CGS, not K&N or AEM.

I have definite improved performance, but when I'm just cruising and taking her easy, my gas mileage has definitely improved.:Racing:

In my eyes, the addition of my CAI was a good decision for me. I hope to also add a catback exhaust at some point and a stage 1 performance chip, but it probably won't be this year.

 

[Aaron]

As much as I love SOYP dyno results, keep in mind that calibrations vary widely by user. :chuckle:

There's a link hanging out here in the forum regarding actual hard data regarding CAI's (not on a Nitro... it may have been on the LX platform, but I don't remember). The thread actually presented pretty strong evidence that the performance gains by some of the more popular CAI's available are hovering on the brink of being negligible. Granted, they weren't real-world situations, and I think they only took 3 data points per test. However, it still remains the only thread I've read that produced hard data from a (reasonably) controlled setting.
I haven't seen any empirical data from retooled exhausts, but if you're going to replace the headers, widen up the piping, and toss in a high-flow cat and muffler, you'll see some improvement there. However, I've heard (again, my eyes haven't seen hard data) that you can get maybe 3-5 mpg out of the whole setup. I seriously doubt that it'll be that high. Moreover, it sounds like the dealer's stance on that issue is that it likely voids the lifetime warranty, since you're directly affecting the exhaust flow which in turn can affect the behavior of the engine.

My take is this: if you're looking at an intake from a purely economical point of view, I'm not sure I'd bother. It looks like the gains are minor in terms of both performance and fuel economy. Driving habits and proper regular maintenance wind up having a bigger effect. For a completely updated exhaust, I haven't seen data, but I would say that intuitively you're still not going to see outstanding improvements in economy, and the cost for a completely new exhaust lends to a substantially longer return on investment. Toss in the possibility that you lose your lifetime warranty and its another mod I would stay away from.

Now, if you're looking for a combination of performance, economy, looks, etc, that's a totally different story. I say mod the crap out of your Nitro and have a blast doing it. :Racing:

If you're looking solely for an improvement in economy, I wouldn't recommend either option for any reasonable ROI.

- Aaron

 

[NPHBOB]

As much as I love SOYP dyno results, keep in mind that calibrations vary widely by user. :chuckle:

There's a link hanging out here in the forum regarding actual hard data regarding CAI's (not on a Nitro... it may have been on the LX platform, but I don't remember). The thread actually presented pretty strong evidence that the performance gains by some of the more popular CAI's available are hovering on the brink of being negligible. Granted, they weren't real-world situations, and I think they only took 3 data points per test. However, it still remains the only thread I've read that produced hard data from a (reasonably) controlled setting.
I haven't seen any empirical data from retooled exhausts, but if you're going to replace the headers, widen up the piping, and toss in a high-flow cat and muffler, you'll see some improvement there. However, I've heard (again, my eyes haven't seen hard data) that you can get maybe 3-5 mpg out of the whole setup. I seriously doubt that it'll be that high. Moreover, it sounds like the dealer's stance on that issue is that it likely voids the lifetime warranty, since you're directly affecting the exhaust flow which in turn can affect the behavior of the engine.

My take is this: if you're looking at an intake from a purely economical point of view, I'm not sure I'd bother. It looks like the gains are minor in terms of both performance and fuel economy. Driving habits and proper regular maintenance wind up having a bigger effect. For a completely updated exhaust, I haven't seen data, but I would say that intuitively you're still not going to see outstanding improvements in economy, and the cost for a completely new exhaust lends to a substantially longer return on investment. Toss in the possibility that you lose your lifetime warranty and its another mod I would stay away from.

Now, if you're looking for a combination of performance, economy, looks, etc, that's a totally different story. I say mod the crap out of your Nitro and have a blast doing it. :Racing:

If you're looking solely for an improvement in economy, I wouldn't recommend either option for any reasonable ROI.

- Aaron

Aaron,

As I said before, I have read a lot about both these mods through the threads here as well as other places. From all I could tell, I pretty much reached the same conclusion as you have just stated. It all sounds good, looks good and gives a feeling of being cool but doesn't really have much in return when it comes to actual numbers.

I had wondered if any of these mods would affect the life time warranty. This is crucial to me since that was one of the big selling points for me. I typically drive a vehicle for as long as it will run and I certainly intend to put Chrysler's warranty to the test.

I was at the dealer yesterday getting the oil changed and had their service tech look up all the "required" maintenance and give me an estimate of what it will cost. I figure that if I can have this work done at the Dodge dealer, then Dodge won't be able to claim the work wasn't done properly or by an unauthorized person. I sure don't want to give them any excuse!

Thanks again for a good and honest write-up!

Bob

 

[scj]

I had a thread answering this question a long while back and the long and short of it is this:

If it does actually increase your gas mileage, how much will it increase it? Do the math and you'll find that even if it increases your MPG by 5, you'll only break even in roughly 30,000+ miles... and that's with unadjusted dollars. If those 30,000+ miles would take you a couple years, you'll have to decrease the savings, thus extending the break-even period.

Save your money and your time and don't bother.

 

[zmass]

I would have to disagree, with an average increase of just 2MPG on a CAI, i would make my money back off of a $200 buy in 6 months.
With gas being $4 a gallon here....
Jet chips and CAI are looking very enticing, I just question warranty...



Now, if you're looking for a combination of performance, economy, looks, etc, that's a totally different story. I say mod the crap out of your Nitro and have a blast doing it. :Racing:

If you're looking solely for an improvement in economy, I wouldn't recommend either option for any reasonable ROI.

- Aaron[/quote]

 

[zmass]

I had a thread answering this question a long while back and the long and short of it is this:

If it does actually increase your gas mileage, how much will it increase it? Do the math and you'll find that even if it increases your MPG by 5, you'll only break even in roughly 30,000+ miles... and that's with unadjusted dollars. If those 30,000+ miles would take you a couple years, you'll have to decrease the savings, thus extending the break-even period.

Save your money and your time and don't bother.

How do you get 30,000 miles break even?
I would break even after 6 months of 900 miles a month..
at $200 for the CAI

 

[Waldorf]

I don't really care about a few MPG this way or that way. I got a CAI and dual exhaust for the boost in torque and for the sound of the exhaust. I got what I wanted and I enjoy my Nitro even more now than before. If you want great MPG then why did you buy a 4000lb SUV? Really!

 

[scj]

I would have to disagree, with an average increase of just 2MPG on a CAI, i would make my money back off of a $200 buy in 6 months.
With gas being $4 a gallon here....
Jet chips and CAI are looking very enticing, I just question warranty...



Now, if you're looking for a combination of performance, economy, looks, etc, that's a totally different story. I say mod the crap out of your Nitro and have a blast doing it. :Racing:

If you're looking solely for an improvement in economy, I wouldn't recommend either option for any reasonable ROI.

- Aaron

[/quote]
I made up 2 different spreadsheets attacking the problem from different angles: one by savings per mile, one by savings over time. Each time, the savings, while significant, are not enough to warrant either buying a car with higher mpg (for instance, it's not financially beneficial to replace an average 19mpg Nitro with a 35 MPG econobox, even over 5 years of driving) or buying power-adders with the express intent of increasing MPG.

Buying these parts for other reasons changes the ball game completely, but buying them for added MPG only is not financially responsible.

I don't have the spreadsheets in front of me at the moment, but I recall playing around with the idea of getting a smart car, presuming the 60MPG advertisement was true. With my current driving habits, over 5 years, with 15% (calculated historical) gas price growth would net me savings of ~$11,000 in adjusted gas costs over 5 years. Now, keep in mind the smart car itself costs more than $11,000 and a quick google search shows that most people get 45mpg in those things...

over all, it's something to consider if buying a new vehicle due to necessity, but not as a "wise" investment in fuel savings.

 

[NPHBOB]

I don't really care about a few MPG this way or that way. I got a CAI and dual exhaust for the boost in torque and for the sound of the exhaust. I got what I wanted and I enjoy my Nitro even more now than before. If you want great MPG then why did you buy a 4000lb SUV? Really!

Waldorf,

I certainly did not purchase my Nitro because of the gas mileage. I loved the looks, the features and the fact that it was capable of towing 5,000 lbs. These are the same reason why I have a 2500 Dodge Ram which I use for towing the bigger toys I have.

However, I think everyone would like to increase their mileage when possible...at least with the increase of gas prices lately. I love my Nitro and would not consider getting rid of it for a "gas powered roller-skate" like what the tree huggers would like for us all to be driving. However, I certainly don't have unlimited funds so if I invest a few dollars to receive a payback, I certainly feel I need to research it.

I too like the sound of dual exhauts (which I have on my Ram) but not sure I would be totally happy with the sound on the V6. I hope to run across someone in my area that has done this type of mod so that I can check it out first hand.

Someone posted that they were concerned about how the CAI and exhaust might affect the life time warranty. Do you have any info along those lines?

Thanks!!!

 

[Pshrynk]

As much as I love SOYP dyno results, keep in mind that calibrations vary widely by user. :chuckle:

There's a link hanging out here in the forum regarding actual hard data regarding CAI's (not on a Nitro... it may have been on the LX platform, but I don't remember). The thread actually presented pretty strong evidence that the performance gains by some of the more popular CAI's available are hovering on the brink of being negligible. Granted, they weren't real-world situations, and I think they only took 3 data points per test. However, it still remains the only thread I've read that produced hard data from a (reasonably) controlled setting.

That was my post and link I still think that CAI's in a lot of applications won't make much of a difference except to lighten your wallet. Factory air boxes are HUGE now and they likely engineer air flow to be pretty good.

Here's a link to an IMPARTIAL dyno and track test of CAI's done on a Dodge LX body. (Magnums, 300's etc

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=14140



That being said I do have a K&N drop in filter (I figured my Nitro is a leased vehicle so who cares if I let a little more dirt in and) and a Borla exhaust -- together it did seem to improve mileage by maybe .5 litres per 100km according to the EVIC over the last 3 mths or so.


__________________

 

[KenCary]

I can't speak for the effectiveness of single mods, but the combination of the K&N, headers, Flowmaster and Jet 2 chip woke up my little 3.7L V6. I can smoke the tires off the line, and chirp 2nd and 3rd grears. One more thing, my underhood temperature dropped by 20-30 degrees as indicated by an IR temp probe--- this is goodness in itself.

I don't bother to track gas mileage often but it did not get any worse and it the Nitro uses half the gas that my 454 3/4 Ton Surburban drinks.

I don't claim that the Nitro is a hot rod, but is much more fun to drive than stock.


That's good enough for me.

Ken

 

[mdwcalif]

OK, I am loving this subject. I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough about my Nitro 4.0L R/T 4x4, but back when I had my '93 GMC Sierra 4x4, I used to have a good speed shop, used to be able to make decisions about asking them to do things like mod my exhaust (glass packs - got a great low, deep burble; it was also a V8), could change my own oil and knew how to drop and re-install my drive shaft for towing my truck on a crosscountry move. That was then. I have forgotten everything I knew, it doesn't apply to the Nitro anyway, but I love my Nitro and want to get so I know enough about it to make good decisions. I'm steep on the learning curve.

So here's some input I got from a co-worker who drives race cars semi-professionally (a certain tilt to that knowledge base, for sure). I was talking to him about CAIs, and choices for my Nitro. He gets a big discount, so I was about to order an AEM or K&B through him. He looked at the printout I did from a website on the appropriate parts and prices, and said 'wait, these aren't TRUE cold air intakes.' Big discussion followed, looking at my stock air intake followed, looking at websites with "true" cold air intakes on various vehicles, etc.

So .. the idea of a CAI is to lower the temp of the air going in, right? My stock intake is enclosed in a box, and the intake pipe (might not be using the appropriate terms) is directed out through the front grille. If I buy a K&N or AEM to fit the Nitro, I'll end up with an air filter open to the interior of the engine. That for sure would then pull engine-heated air, right? Unless I get fabrications, customizations, etc to route it out somewhere else.

I have two goals in considering a CAI mod: 1) making my engine work better; if it improves performance, and I get gains in mpg or whatever, fine, but as others have said, saving megabucks is not an expectation I have for this mod; 2) hoping to get rid of the high-pitched metallic ringing (or whistling) noise that I get at low rpm under throttle.

So, I might not be "better" off at all, given my goals, with any standard CAI mod. I might be better off if I could get somebody with a stethoscope to track down that noise, that may or may not have anything to do with my intake system.

Is this making sense? Does the input I got ring 'right' to you folks?

 

[KenCary]

Your friend is partially right about the K&N not being able to pull air directly from outside but the HP gain comes more from a less restrictive filter, air box and Air tube than it is from getting much colder air.

Just like your stock muffler, stock intakes have baffles to reduce noise and in doing so reduce some airflow. If your buddy is old school, he will remember the old flip the air cleaner trick to pick up HP or the cal-custom open element aircleaners.--- same idea

Check out this tread for more details: http://www.nitroforumz.com/showthread.php?t=6808&highlight=de-mystified

Also if you look carefully, the Nitro air intake tube is not open to the front of the grill. It goes to a deadspace between the grill and the firewall--- hardly ram air.
Ken

 

[mdwcalif]

Thanks for the link, that helped! I thought I had looked all around on this subject, but I missed that explanation you gave, and it was important.

 

[KenCary]

NP that is what we are all here for -- to share information.

 

[Scar0]

I have two goals in considering a CAI mod: 1) making my engine work better; if it improves performance, and I get gains in mpg or whatever, fine, but as others have said, saving megabucks is not an expectation I have for this mod; 2) hoping to get rid of the high-pitched metallic ringing (or whistling) noise that I get at low rpm under throttle.

So, I might not be "better" off at all, given my goals, with any standard CAI mod. I might be better off if I could get somebody with a stethoscope to track down that noise, that may or may not have anything to do with my intake system.

If one of your goals is to eliminate the noise, I would try to find the source first. Then if you want a CAI, do it. It would be a big disappointment to spend the $ for a CAI and find out that it did not fix the noise issue.
The CAI is a good performance mod in my opinion and I am planning on doing one in the near future along with a new exhaust.